Topics of the day:

1. Re: self-ligating brackets and loose lig ties
2. Re: Damon Controversy
3. Re: Bracket design, friction and self-ligating mechanisms; Re: Transverse Expansion and Damon
4. RE: Dr. Viecilli's comments
5. Need recommendation on orthodontist in NYC
6. ESCO - The Electronic Study Club for Orthodontics


Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:50:41 -0400
Subject: Re: self-ligating brackets and loose lig ties

Dear colleagues,

I appreciate all the  correspondence regarding the self-ligating brackets so far. I like to see photographs of  before and after correction of posterior maxillary skeletal cross bites  from some independent orthodontist not connected to ORMCO or GAC . Also, Dr. Viecilli made a valid point about loose lig ties. So could you just loosely lig tie your wires and stay with your present bracket system, what ever it may be?

Anthony Togrye


From: "Roy King " <> 
Subject: Re: Damon Controversy
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:00:56 -0500

Dear ESCO,

Please do not fool yourself if one cannot understand why a technique works.  I have found that usually the key to understanding is to know the practitioner.  It is not so much the technique but the practitioner employing the technique. I have seen the profession dismiss giants in dentistry because we could not understand the giant. For instance, Dr Cetlin was ridiculed for some time because he did things that the profession said that could not be done.  If you ever want to see beautiful cases, he has a boatload of them that shows stability of the expansion of the mandibular arch. Also Dr Farrar was kick out of AES because he hypothesized the possibility of an anterior displaced disc in the TMJ. Was he right or was all of dentistry wrong? There are many instances where the leaders are not understood by clinicians and researchers and this leads to a lot of arguments.  I have personally found that before one throws those daggers, walk in the practitioners shoes by doing 100 consecutive cases exactly has he prescribes.  This is difficult for many to do but you will reach a better understanding of the technique without so much bias. After 26 years of practicing, I have found that there are very ,very few bad techniques, but some techniques take an excellant practitioner to make it shine.  I have found that some orthodontist says that a technique cannot be done but really they mean that they cannot perform the technique. I have learn to limit my discussion with professionals that has sincerely tried the technique(100 cases) .  Before throwing the stones, please meet Dwight Damon and enjoy his enthusiasm for orthodontics. As the old saying goes, two orthodontist is always better than one( I made that up.)

For those nonextractionist, examine Dr Jack Dale's cases and tell me they are not excellent. In the beginning we did not know how functionals worked, but clinically they gave us the results which encouraged us to continue with functionals and now many orthodontist uses the Herbst.

I guess what really aggravates so many of us is the marketing that we see today as one technique is superior to another technique and nobody likes to be put down, and now the anti Damon's are punching back at the Damons. Of course we all remember how we resisted the non-extraction approach,functional approach, surgical approach, and many others. Did we not resist the Bioprogressive but we all agree that Dr Ricketts was a giant and a leader. 

To set the record straight, I have used the Damon bracket since 1998 and I do have issues with the design and not the technique. I have seen clinical differences between the Damon and the pre-adjusted twin edgewise bracket.  The difference in the bracket is not as great as difference in the technique.  I still use rapid palatal expansion but Damon has changed how and when I use it.  I still love rapid palatal expansion and my hat goes off to Dr. Haas for that. If you really want to know how well a technique or the practitioner is, ask the restorative dentist who has to live with our results for a life time. 

Always look for what is right in a technique and use it towards your advantage.

Roy King
Jupiter, Fl
PS I got to prepare for another hurricane so see you later.


From: "Paul Thomas " <>
Subject: Re: Bracket design, friction and self-ligating mechanisms; Re: Transverse Expansion and Damon
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:02:13 -0500

Thanks to Rodrigo for his thoughtful analysis of the self-ligating brackets.  We need more clinicians/scientists who are willing to "question the attire of the emperor".  One question comes to mind regarding the three options mentioned at the end of the post.  Do we have science regarding the effects of "round tripping" roots and subsequent potential side-effects or is this yet one more area of orthodontic dogma??

Kind Regards,
Paul M Thomas Senior Research Fellow
Department of Orthodontics
Eastman Dental Institute
256 Gray's Inn Road
London WCX1 8LD


Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:09:34 -0500
From: "Kevin Walde" <>
To: "The Electronic Study Club for Orthodontics" <ESCO@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU>
Subject: RE: Dr. Viecilli's comments


RE: Dr. Viecilli's comments

Have you forgotten that the Damon System wakes up the tongue?! Great comments.

Happy Trails,
Kevin Walde
Washington, MO


Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 00:37:32 -0400
Subject: Need recommendation on orthodontist in NYC

Can anyone recommend a good orthodontist in NYC in the upper west side? Preferably someone that uses Damon Brackets. Thanks,


Dear Colleague:

The Electronic Study Club for Orthodontics (ESCO) is a free forum for exchange of information and opinions among orthodontists, and for distribution of professional information, sponsored by the Department of Orthodontics, University of Illinois at Chicago .  Information distributed on this list-server is NOT edited or refereed, and it represents only the opinions of the writers of the individual messages. Such writers bear the sole responsibility for the content of messages they author.  Authors are required to verify information regarding other parties included in their messages.  

* What information can you get on ESCO?

* How to subscribe to ESCO?

* How to change your address?

* How to post messages on ESCO?

* How to get copies of old digests of ESCO?

For answers to these questions and more, please check our web site:

To view and search old digests, please view our web site:

Enjoy your reading!